Well Designed: A Human Design Podcast

Kyle Wood: Welcome listeners,
back to well designed.

Uh, my name is Kyle Wood.

Uh, of your hosts.

With me is my co-host Brandy,

and today we have a
special guest, Jamie Clark.

So Jamie is a, as a background in improv,
which is kind of how we . We first met

her, which would be over a year ago now.

Uh, but we also know Jamie because
we studied human design together.

And so the three of us have been
going on this journey into like

human design and how do we bring
this into kind of what we already do.

Uh, so Jamie's company is called
Intentional Improv and she works, um,

with people as . I'm gonna just quote
her back here, around, uh, inner child

work, um, and specifically towards
overcoming their fear of public speaking,

which is, is that the, is that that
cliche thing as like the number one

fear or the number two fear, Jamie?

Is that right?

Jamie Clark: Yeah.

80% of people have some level of fear.

Public speaking.

Kyle Wood: Yeah.

It's, um,

yeah, I understand that and,
and I, I'm excited to ask you

questions about that today.

Jamie Clark: you're like, I'm in that 80%.

Kyle Wood: Um, she, so yeah, she
looks at, she works with clients

to look at their limitations around
this stuff and the somatics, which I

thought was really interesting, and
I'm curious to learn more about that.

And then with a human design
background, she's able to weave that

into that as well by understanding
people's charts and types.

Um, so yeah, this is, this is gonna be
fun and we can't wait to pick your brain.

And you're also a manifester, which
you're our first manifester guest.

So also would love to pick your brain
about how that shows up for you in your

life and Yeah, welcome to the show.

Jamie Clark: Thank you so much.

Happy to be here.

And yeah, please, any questions
that you have about the Manifester

experience, the work that I do
in the world would love to talk.

Kyle Wood: Yeah,

Jamie Clark: I can't believe it's been

a year

It has been.

Kyle Wood: yeah.

Um,

Brandi Healy: Longer.

It's been

like

Jamie Clark: it been

two?

Kyle Wood: I.

Jamie Clark: Wow.

Brandi Healy: Yeah,

Kyle Wood: So the,

Jamie Clark: that.

Kyle Wood: the first question I have
for you and it, it makes sense 'cause

we're about to ask you questions,
is there's this, there's this thing

around manifesters where as a type
in general broad strokes that they

don't like being asked questions.

Um, and I've just

have

Brandi Healy: or false,

Kyle Wood: curious about,
'cause as a projector.

I, I really like being asked questions
'cause I, you know, really want

my opinion and stuff like that.

So how does that show up for, for you?

Because obviously you
can't go through life

,
hating people asking questions.

Or maybe you can, I

Brandi Healy: You could,

Kyle Wood: could, but I, but knowing

Brandi Healy: could

Kyle Wood: you are, I've asked
you questions before Jamie.

You're always very open to it
and give very insightful answers.

So how does that actually,
that part of being a manifesto

actually show up for you?

Jamie Clark: Yeah, totally.

And it really just depends on the
question And also the time and place,

right?

So something,

and I, I,

am a big proponent of asking

manifesters questions in certain
ways when they're ready to

be asked something, right?

And so what happens, uh, a question.

So say you ask a question of
somebody that is a generator or a

manifesting generator or a projector.

We'll start with manifester
manifesting generators and generators.

They often get a sacral response.

Their body lights up, they're
like, Uhhuh, I like that.

Or, oh no, I don't like that.

But from an undefined sacral
perspective, manifesters don't get that.

And projectors don't either.

But you're that.

That's a whole nother thing
that y'all can speak to.

But for me, when somebody asks me a
question that I don't want to answer,

there's almost this immediate block like
If somebody asks me a yes or no question

or asks me what I wanna be doing, I, I
could give you a thousand answers, right?

And so it's been really helpful in this
shift for me is if somebody says, Hey,

I'm curious about la, la la la, la,
I'm curious about what you're doing.

I'm curious about intentional improv.

I traveled in a camper van for

years,

and if they say, I'm curious about

your van travels, then that
puts the ball in my court.

If I wanna respond or not,
where if somebody's like, do

you like traveling in a van?

Or do you want, do you know what I mean?

Like, or are you going
to Denver next month?

Or do you want to do this?

Or Tell me about this.

There's almost this hesitancy
to to answer because it doesn't

feel like it's on my terms.

Kyle Wood: No, that's really

Jamie Clark: And so I love this and
what I wanna say, because we are on

a podcast and people ask me questions
all the time on podcasts and all

these places, I, I'm willingly here.

I want to answer

questions.

And so I, I

typically, if

somebody asks me something
that I don't wanna respond

to, I just change the subject.

Or I just don't answer, right?

Like, I just don't, I'm like, I
don't have an ans I'll just say

like, I don't have an answer for that

Kyle Wood: Yeah.

Jamie Clark: and then I'll
share what I wanna share

anyways.

Kyle Wood: Yeah.

I like that.

That's cool.

That's helpful.

So yeah, it's the way, yeah,
the way people ask you the

questions and the topic.

Yeah, that makes sense.

Um, it's like, I don't like small talk.

Don't ask me how I'm doing today.

I think we've ranted about this another.

It's the worst question you can ask me,

Unless

you

.
Brandi Healy: you can.

You're good.

Yeah.

It's like how much time do you have?

Kyle Wood: Yeah.

Jamie Clark: Well, in asking,

answering

that, honestly, if somebody

asks you how they are, if they
genuinely wanna know, I wanna know.

But I don't ask many people that

question,

Kyle Wood: Yeah.

Yes.

Same.

I, I will.

Yeah.

Because for the same reason.

It's like, well, I, I genuinely,
I'm not just saying that as

a, a, what would you call it?

Some sort of

Brandi Healy: A filler.

Kyle Wood: filler.

Yeah.

Or like, you know, like a nicety,
that that's how we should talk

Brandi Healy: Mm-Hmm.

Jamie Clark: I was up in New England
recently, uh, running or co-leading

a retreat where I was doing
improv and reading human design.

And it was fascinating.

It was a bunch of
ex-military men and women

and so Right.

So not necessarily

a group that you

would imagine would be into

improv and human design, but it was
incredible and I've done a lot of work

with, um, People that have been in
the military, but he reframed this.

We were talking about small talk and
he said The reason why we have small

talk is that people aren't necessarily
designed to see so many people in one day.

I.

Right.

And so if you think about

how

tribes used to be, or smaller

communities,

you knew every single person in

the tribe.

You knew everybody is surrounding you,

and so

you're able to have deeper

conversations more quickly.

But in today's society, we don't
know everyone at the grocery store.

We don't know everybody in restaurants.

And so we have these very high
level, quick like, how are you?

Oh,

I'm good.

How are you to just

indicate to people that I'm safe.

I'm not a threat.

I hope that you're Well,
without getting into

the nitty gritty,

Kyle Wood: yes.

That makes a

Jamie Clark: his design was amazing.

it was so cool to look at his design.

I was like, that is such
an interesting thing.

It's such a tribal thing that happens
of, oh, we're not really meant,

we're not designed to be working
with thousands of people every day.

So we use, how are you?

As

just this

very surface level question to move

through life.

Kyle Wood: Yeah,

Brandi Healy: Yeah, for

sure.

Jamie, how did you,

oh, go ahead, Kyle.

Kyle Wood: Yeah, I was
just gonna make a comment.

Or like when, you know, I go to the city,
it's not even that like people just don't

even acknowledge each other because I
guess, yeah, you would just get fatigued.

And I always find, and it's how
when I live here, I always know

when someone's from the city or not.

'cause if they're local,
they'll nod, smile, say GA.

Yeah, if they're not local, it's like
it's not even on their radar that

I should, that they should interact
with that other human being that's

passing them, which I always judge them

for, but I will judge them less now.

, you're just fatigued,

you're just.

Jamie Clark: Yeah, you're just.

Kyle Wood: in a day.

You're not designed for this.

It's not your fault.

Brandi Healy: you.

Yes.

It's not, yes, you Have compassion.

Have compassion.

They're just overstimulated

and that's why they're coming to your

small

town is to unplug.

Kyle Wood: Yeah.

So at the

Brandi Healy: Yes.

And maybe,

Kyle Wood: saying hello to everyone.

Yeah.

Brandi Healy: yes, exactly.

Just in time to go get dysregulated back

in the city.

Jamie, I'm really curious.

How did you get started in improv?

Jamie Clark: Yeah, totally.

So I have to say, first of all, when
people hear improv or improv comedy,

people either love it or they run
for the hills and they're terrified.

Right.

And so if you had talked to middle
school, Jamie, or high school Cha

Jamie, or even early twenties, Jamie,
I would've said Absolutely not.

I'm never gonna improvise.

You think I'm gonna get on a
stage and try and make people

laugh for an hour and a half?

I can't speak in, in class, like in
college classes, I would clam up.

I would be the shy kid.

I wouldn't speak.

Brandi Healy: Mm-Hmm.

Jamie Clark: I moved out
to Reno, Nevada in my early

twenties with a amazing company.

I was help building out a sales floor.

And it was fun.

But all of my coworkers, it was
great to interact with them.

And we had, I formed amazing
relationships, but as you work

with somebody, you naturally
always talk about work, right?

Brandi Healy: Mm-Hmm.

Jamie Clark: And so I was like,
I'm looking for something else.

I want community.

I wanna hobby outside of it.

Like imagine, you know, early twenties,
you're looking for something outside of

what we do all day long in our careers.

And so.

At the time I was super into
the show called Broad City.

Did either of you watch it?

Brandi Healy: Mm

Jamie Clark: No.

Okay.

That's okay.

What about, what about parks and rec?

Parks and recreation?

Kyle Wood: I've watched it.

Don't ask, Brandy doesn't work.

Don't ask Brandy if

Jamie Clark: Okay.

Kyle Wood: shows.

I've watched a

Brandi Healy: Don't ask me anything.

I don't watch Yeah.

I

I hardly watch any television.

I'm the worst.

Jamie Clark: All good.

All good.

So it's this, it's very similar.

It's just this like, I don't know,
how would you describe it, Kyle?

It's like a, a show about a, an
office with like different, and she

like the main characters and politics and
the government and like, it's very funny.

All these things.

I was super into it and many of the
people on that show were improvisers.

And then on Broad City

I learned

that it's like sketch comedy

and very funny and very like
very, very, very smart humor.

And I just remember thinking
like, wow, this is so cool.

And then started looking
into it and it was improv.

And I was like, shit, this is

terrifying to

me.

This is so scary.

I don't wanna do this.

This is like, it's like I can feel
my heart starting to beat and like

my chest getting tight right now,
just thinking about this 21-year-old

version of myself that was so shy.

But this thing that I was like being
called towards was making people laugh and

having authentic connections with people
and not knowing what you were gonna say.

And so I looked up a class.

I had a couple beers before
I looked up the class.

I don't drink anymore, but I
just was like, okay, maybe I'll

take this, maybe I'll take it.

And signed up and then
went to a level one.

Didn't tell anybody I was doing it.

It was in the basement of
another theater and art space.

It was just a really small, like
their web, like we didn't, I

didn't know anything about it.

Um.

It just spiraled from there.

Like, I had so much fun.

My first class, I was like, oh, this
is just playing make believe with my

friends and just playing games and
like learning how to be creative again.

And it was terrifying.

I mean, I had a beer before every
single class, like every single class.

Like I did not, and like, again, I
don't drink anymore really, but like

I, it was this like fear and I'm sure
you two can relate to this, where

you're like, Ooh, this is so fun.

I wanna do this,

but I'm terrified.

Kyle Wood: mm-Hmm.

Brandi Healy: Right,

Jamie Clark: And so it
just, it's, I mean, it

just spiraled from there.

It took off

Kyle Wood: Yeah.

Jamie Clark: intensely.

I have one level,

one level, one class turned
into another one, and

then, uh, we got out of the basement
theater and all of us ended up like

we gutted this old t-shirt shop.

Brandi Healy: Mm-Hmm.

Jamie Clark: Like in the middle
of the city and turned it into an

improv theater and started doing
classes and shows and all this stuff.

And then that it just, I
mean, the rest is history.

It just completely spiraled from

there.

Brandi Healy: So then my

Kyle, unless you have another
question, I have a part two of this

question.

Kyle Wood: you go.

No, go.

Go for it.

Brandi Healy: So then my second
part of this question then is,

okay, so we've discovered improv.

How did you find out about human design?

And then there's a part three and
I'm sure you can guess what that is,

but we'll, we'll just go with it.

We'll just go with it.

Jamie Clark: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Oh my gosh.

Okay, so how did I discover human design?

Oh, I was at a retreat.

I.

in Austin, Texas.

I had been, I had started to
do inner child work, which is

the second half of my company.

Intentional improv.

That's the intentional side of it, right?

Where you're digging into
beliefs that aren't serving you.

Uh, really re-parenting yourself
and essentially living the life that

the 7-year-old version would love.

Right?

So I was in Austin.

I was at this retreat and I
met this woman who was a doula.

So she, she's like a birth practitioner
and she does human design as well.

And I heard it and thought, huh?

Like, what's that?

And she said, it's cool.

Like look it up.

She didn't tell me much about it.

She's a projector, which is funny.

Um,

and so later on

I'm at the airport and I'm like.

Hungover I was still
drinking at that point.

And like we had, like me and my
partner at the time, I swear I don't

drink now, but it keeps coming up
Um, but anyway, I was just like,

it was like a weekend of partying.

It was so much fun.

Um, I had known all these people
from inner child work and like.

I pulled up my chart on my phone and I
was like, manifester, okay, whatever.

And I looked up an article and the first
thing that I read about myself said

that I had a closed and repelling aura.

That I was angry all the time and I
was destined to lead a lonely life.

And that people hated me.

Brandi Healy: So you immediately loved it.

Jamie Clark: Exactly.

Brandi Healy: I'm hearing.

Jamie Clark: I was like this.

Brandi Healy: Yeah.

So you felt so deeply seen as so many say

Jamie Clark: Yeah, exactly.

I was like, check, check, check,
check, check, check, check.

So obviously like slammed my phone
shut and was like, screw this.

This is so dumb.

I don't like it.

Whatever.

Kyle Wood: Yeah.

Jamie Clark: And forgot about it.

Brandi Healy: Mm-Hmm.

Jamie Clark: six months later,

really, I was going through a tough time.

At that time I was really
out of alignment, right?

I was partying and all these things, and I
just learned about human design and inner

child work, and was starting that journey
of like, corporate's great and corporate's

fine, and I'm doing well for myself, but
this isn't actually what I wanna be doing.

And so I was, I was deeply out of
alignment when I found it, and it

so it makes sense that I was angry.

Kyle Wood: Yeah.

Brandi Healy: Mm.

Jamie Clark: Right.

And

then

six months later

had, you know, started to let go of

things that weren't serving
me, was in a healthier spot.

Um, it came up again at another
retreat and the woman that shared

with me about it was like, oh, it's
so fun and manifesto's being amazing.

Let me tell you all these things.

Look

it up for yourself.

Kyle Wood: Yeah.

Brandi Healy: Mm-Hmm.

Jamie Clark: And so

that softer approach,

and I, I

imagine you all can

resonate with this, with
Erin being our teacher

was what I needed.

I couldn't hang

with somebody being like,
you're angry all the time.

Even though I was, even though

I have a closed

or repelling aura.

Yeah,

go ahead.

Brandi Healy: I was just gonna

say, it's like the anti

manifester approach is like,
let me tell you what to do.

as a parent of a manifester, it's
like, I, I am like, that doesn't

fly

Jamie Clark: Yeah, exactly.

And I was just like, no, uh,

Brandi Healy: Yeah.

Kyle Wood: Yeah.

Jamie Clark: and just this is not

gonna work.

Don't tell me what to do.

Um,

Brandi Healy: yeah.

exactly.

Kyle Wood: Yeah.

I've heard that with, um,
projectors as well, like people

with projectors getting told like,
oh, you're just tired all the time.

And it's like, that's,

that's

not really like helpful.

Brandi Healy: not helpful.

Kyle Wood: doesn't get you excited about

Brandi Healy: you are like,
I know You're like, I know

Kyle Wood: like, well, everyone's tired,

Jamie Clark: Yeah, exactly.

Like duh.

Yeah, and it's sometimes the language
or the initial shock can be so

intense, but then later when you
really understand what the words mean.

Kyle Wood: Mm

Jamie Clark: you realize,

oh,

okay.

I I use my energy in a different

way than other people.

Kyle Wood: mm-Hmm.

Brandi Healy: So it's really

cool is to kind of look at your
chart and see that you have

a six in your profile, and I'm just
really curious to understand like w.

When did this kind of shift to place,
did it kind of take place around that

time where you're moving out of that
first phase of the sixth line, you know,

and you're still kind of in it into
that second phase of the sixth line?

Jamie Clark: Yeah, definitely.

Absolutely.

So, I, I, would say all of
this started around 28, 29,

where I was really, you know, I, I
had loved improv and I was building

that community having so much
fun with it and really creatively

expressing myself in my late twenties
and still at this corporate job.

And I was just like, this is not it.

This is not right.

And when I turned 30, I really,
I mean, I burned it down.

I really did.

I was like, this is not for me.

I left, uh, a relationship
that was very serious.

I started traveling in a camper van.

Uh, I was working my corporate job
while I was traveling in a camper van.

I started going deep into human design
and then also into inner child work, and

now I teach and coach that and really
just spending so much time in nature.

I went from, you know, living in a
townhouse in a city and working all

the time and being at the theater
all the time to living in a van in

national parks for a year and a half.

And all of that happened when I turned 30.

Brandi Healy: Mm-Hmm.

Jamie Clark: And so as you know,
you know that's that phase of

going up onto the roof and really
starting to shed things that are not

serving you anymore, that are not

working.

Kyle Wood: Yeah.

Brandi Healy: Yeah, for sure.

And it's like I, you know,

I have a three in

my profile, so I can definitely relate

to kind of that first part of
your experience around, you know,

kind of trying things right.

And doing like, this is what I should
be doing, is working in a, you know,

more structured environment and
ticking the boxes and realizing like

this doesn't really work for me.

And I don't know how you felt once you
kind of got to that place, but was it,

did it feel like this is a no-brainer for
me to start to shed some of this stuff?

Or did it feel challenging like I'm
a failure and I'm just like because

I have certainly had those times in
my life where I look back on really

experimental phases and been and In
a shadow piece of myself being like,

you are such a failure or flaky.

'cause you like tried these
things and like chucked 'em

instead of being like, okay, cool.

Like I tried these things and
now I know what I don't want.

I.

Jamie Clark: Interesting
that you felt that way.

And it makes sense, especially with that
third line, you know, you, you have this

resilience to you and also that fear
of failure, that thinking that you're a

failure is so reminiscent of the three.

So I would say for me, it's hard
to answer, but when I was, I.

I would say that I had this great life.

I really built, I had great community
and great friendships and great

relationships and had a lot of fun and
was successful in my corporate career.

And I mean, building the theater from
the ground up and being a part of that

is an experience that I absolutely love.

I think where I got tripped up is
that I was, I was just not, I wanted

something more, or something different.

And so to me, I was looking around and
I was thinking, well, all my friends are

getting married and having babies, and I
want that one day, and they're in these

careers and I want that one day, but this
just does not feel like there's something

more, there's something different here.

And so I, you know, it was definitely
tumultuous like burning it all down.

But it was one of the most
beautiful experiences of my life.

I mean, I wouldn't trade that
for the world and getting to

explore such a beautiful country.

And I'm in the US and so

such a beautiful landscape
that people don't

typically talk about when
you think about America.

But I got to stay on

wineries and farms and learn

this different way of being that
was so different to how I grew

up and what I've been used to.

Kyle Wood: Hmm.

Brandi Healy: Mm-Hmm.

Jamie Clark: think

to really

I, and now

I can't imagine doing what
I was doing for so long.

Because it just

doesn't, I just, it doesn't work

for me.

Kyle Wood: a,

that's a typ.

That's a not, I shouldn't
say you're not typical.

That's a common . Sixth
line thing, isn't it?

Like thinking back on your twenties
and being like, yeah, I would,

there's no way I would do that now,

Jamie Clark: yeah,

Brandi Healy: Yeah,

Jamie Clark: yeah,

Kyle Wood: but thank God for all those

Jamie Clark: yeah.

Kyle Wood: you have.

So,

Jamie Clark: Definitely

Brandi Healy: and it.

Kyle Wood: uh, I, so I was
curious about that anger piece.

So now when you notice anger coming up,
what does, what does that mean for you?

Because, sorry, from a, I'll share
for people for manifesters there.

What we call their not self is, is anger.

So it can be a bit of a signpost.

So that's why I'm asking
you that question.

, it's for the listeners,

Jamie Clark: You are like,
she's clearly an angry person.

No, I'm just kidding.

Um, yeah, so I would say for me, anger
has been one of my biggest teachers.

So, and historically I
was very afraid of anger.

Right?

It's not safe to be angry.

It's not okay to be angry.

It's, you know, don't be angry.

Brandi Healy: it is not

feminine to be angry.

Jamie Clark: It is not
feminine to be angry, right?

And so don't express
anger, really be calm.

And so for me, and this goes into inner
child reparenting and it's, you know,

my, I have a great relationship with
my parents and we just in general,

anger wasn't something that I was
like necessarily exposed to a lot as

a kid, and I'm so grateful for that.

But what I learned was
it's not okay to be angry.

Kyle Wood: Mm.

Brandi Healy: Mm-Hmm.

Jamie Clark: Right, and so, and not

just, not

necessarily for my
parents, but just society

in general.

Brandi Healy: Right, right.

Jamie Clark: And so I had a lot of
unlearning that I needed to do around

anger and raw talks about this from
a human design perspective where

manifesters are either incredibly
angry or they're incredibly repressed.

Kyle Wood: Hmm.

Jamie Clark: so for me,
I was definitely in that

repressed category of it's
not healthy to have anger.

It's not safe to be angry.

You're a woman, don't be shy.

All this shit, hope we can curse
on here 'cause it's gonna happen.

Brandi Healy: Oh yeah.

Kyle Wood: Yeah.

Brandy does it all

Jamie Clark: um Right.

And

Kyle's like it's Brandy

Kyle Wood: must be 'cause you don't drink.

So that's your vice is like, swear.

No, I swear.

Brandi Healy: tr

Truly, truly, I'm like, let me live.

Let me live.

Jamie Clark: Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Good.

And so I just did, and so what

I really

had to learn was that

my anger is safe, and my anger

is something that is
showing me that something

is out of

alignment.

Brandi Healy: Mm-Hmm.

Jamie Clark: it's interesting because it
goes back to performing and it it, you,

you know, think about the best movies
you've ever seen or the most passionate

performers or actors or comedians.

They're passionate, they're angry
sometimes, and there's, that's such an

integral part of the human experience.

Brandi Healy: Mm-Hmm.

Jamie Clark: And so for me, after doing
work around this and really feeling into

like, how can I feel, how can I have
anger in my body and how can I How can I

express it so it doesn't keep me stuck?

Kyle Wood: Mm.

Brandi Healy: Mm-Hmm.

Jamie Clark: And so

I'd say now, you

know, for so long I was
afraid to express anger.

But at this point in my
life, like I love anger.

I don't, there's so many, he, I wanna
say that there's so many unhealthy

expressions of anger out there that are
very, that are, that we've got a whole

lot of work to do about that in the world.

But for me personally,
when I am angry, it's a.

Sign that is something off

either with me or with my community, or

there's been something

that is unjust that has happened.

Kyle Wood: Hmm.

Brandi Healy: Y

Yeah.

And

I find it so useful

to understand that as a
parrot of a manifester

instead,

Jamie Clark: Yeah.

Brandi Healy: I notice coming from my
10-year-old, instead of just trying to fix

it, it's like really trying to understand
like, where are we out of alignment here

and How can I help you use that emotion
as that signpost to say, like, where can,

what's going on here that we can course
correct Where I feel like in the past

and, and of course like it's super
still super easy to be like, I.

Don't be mad.

Let's like repress,

right?

It's like now it's not

now it's not a convenient time for your
anger in the middle of the grocery store,

You know what I mean?

However, however, and

let me tell you, she was a.

Spicy toddler.

But as we're getting older, you
know, now we're preteen and we're

heading into some, you know, some
interesting and unique years.

It is such a useful piece to have
like to have in that, to have that

awareness and to say like, okay,
like that anger is showing up

because something is off for her.

And instead of making her wrong for
feeling that, like how do I give

her safety to express that and.

Ways that are not like destructive
to like everyone else in her path

because that has certainly come up.

It's like when she's pissed, it's like
ruckus to everybody else in the house.

And so now it's about like, cool,
you're allowed to feel your feelings,

however we need to help you.

Like harness how you're expressing that
so that it's not just like You know,

shrapnel to everyone else in your wake

Jamie Clark: Right, exactly.

Because she's a human in the world
and sometimes anger needs a certain

outlet and a certain place to be
expressed and the show must continue.

Right.

That's so funny.

I love that you're really instilling
that in her so early and also like

noticing, helping her have that

language.

Because I did not understand that.

And my mom is so emotionally intelligent

and I thank God for her every day.

And she was so she could hold it
and she could, you know, help me.

And I was a really spicy,
really, really spicy, spicy,

spicy little baby, apparently.

Allegedly

Brandi Healy: I can word on the street.

Jamie Clark: Yeah.

Brandi Healy: So what are some ways
now that you have come, what are

some like coping mechanisms that
you've come to develop for yourself?

It's like when you see that anger show
up, like how does that show up for you?

Maybe now and like what are
some, you know, course correction

tools that you have for yourself?

For, you know, other

spicy manifesters out there that are
like, I just wanna yell at people

because that's, I feel like that's
the place that my daughter goes to is

like, let's turn up the volume to 10

Jamie Clark: I love that.

I love that.

And you know, it's so funny because the,
the tool that I use and the tool that

I share and the tool that I teach is
the same for all energy types, right?

Because you think about the projector
experiencing bitterness, man manifesting

generators and generators experiencing

frustration, reflectors feeling
disappointment, and it all comes

back to what you feel in your body.

Brandi Healy: mm-Hmm.

Jamie Clark: And so think about, and
I'm curious about your experiences as

projectors and the feeling of bitterness.

When I'm angry, my body has
a very specific reaction.

It feels big and red, and
I'm like, but it's hot.

It's, it's intense.

It's this big energy.

And so for me, the somatic
healing side of it, and really,

so somatic is of the body, right?

Dropping into your body.

it's actually feeling the
anger on a somatic level.

And what I mean by that is taking deep
breaths and noticing and describing

what's happening in your body rather than
using words and verbally, like tearing

something or somebody down, right?

Because that that's, that's harmful.

I'm not here to harm, but I'm also
here to express my anger, right?

And so giving myself a chance to feel
anger on a visceral level and then

seeing what's on the other side of it.

I'm curious how bitterness
shows up for the two of you.

Kyle Wood: me, it's just like, like
Ru obviously like ruminating on

something a lot, so it'll be like
the same stories going on and none.

Then part of my design is like, um, that
my blame usually goes outwards as well.

So usually there's like, there's some
kind of blame going with that, although

I'll happily put that blame on myself if

there's no one, if there's no one
to, uh, put it on externally to me.

Um, but yeah, so, so yeah, so that there
tend to be a lot of, like, in my mind,

like blaming and, and finger pointing.

That comes with like the bitterness of
not getting the recognition that I, that

I felt like I deserved around this thing.

Um, when I can notice that, which like
meditating and things like that helps

with that, uh, and that actually the
meditation thing I'm following at the

moment is like doing a lot of like being
curious about like when a story comes

up, get, be curious about how it feels
in your body and welcoming that so that.

Has been really difficult.

just like difficult,

like,

Jamie Clark: challenging.

Kyle Wood: a muscle that
I just haven't used.

Difficult, like, not like,

oh, this is super

Brandi Healy: mm-Hmm.

Kyle Wood: to me, but more like,
this is just so foreign to how

I've been operating for so long.

So

Jamie Clark: Yep.

Kyle Wood: that, that's my, my
random tangent on, on the bitterness.

But yeah, it does tend to be, I've
got a very active mind, so it does

tend to be like really up in my head
lots of like thoughts and stories.

Jamie Clark: Yeah.

Fascinating that, that's coming up
for you right now and thinking, and of

course it's a brand new baby muscle,

but it has never been used before.

Right.

And

I love that analogy because you're

all, you're doing, all you're
doing is Strengthening the muscle

of feeling what is in your body,

right?

It's just like going to the gym

or your, your brain
has obviously, and very

clearly had a lot of reps

of teaching you how to do

something and telling you what's
happening as compared to building

the, building the muscle and
building the capacity to say, oh.

What do I feel in my body right now
who, like nobody asks you that when

you're walking down the street,

Kyle Wood: Yeah.

Jamie Clark: Right?

And so

that's, and so

what's so helpful, and I'll tie

this back to improv and then I
wanna hear what Brandy has to say

is when you're improvising, right?

It's not like I was like, I'm gonna
take an improv class, and then

I got on stage and made people
laugh for an hour and a half.

No, no, no, no, no.

I was playing games and practicing and

making mistakes over and over
and over again, and building the

muscle of failing, quote unquote,

and just observing what
comes outta my mouth.

And so through that repetition,
I built the muscle and I built

the skillset of improvising.

so when I first started Somatic
experiencing work, the intentional

side of intentional improv,
I couldn't label my emotions.

I remember the first time a coach told
me to do that, and I was like, what

do you mean I have to look at my body.

And like, what

do you mean?

What color is it?

Like you just don't,

we don't understand.

But as you

practice it over and over again, you
start to become so much more familiar

with the sensations in your body.

Brandi Healy: It's so interesting.

We had a guest on here, um,
a reflector who is a feminine

embodiment coach, and I did a session

with her and it was very similar, where
she was like, you know, tell me what

you're noticing in your body afterwards.

Like she was like, you
don't understand how.

Most of the time when I work with
clients, it's so challenging just

to get past that first part of
what are you feeling in your body?

And it's like at that point I had been a
yoga practitioner for like 20 years and

like had been teaching for several years.

So again, it was a skill that
I had already built, but it was

so fascinating to realize like
most people don't walk around.

Paying attention to what comes
up in their physical body.

Just like people, oh, some
people don't pay attention what's

happening in their emotional body

either.

So, you know, it can be, they can
certainly be blocks either way.

And when I, you know, going back to
your question around like bitterness,

when I think about what does bitterness
feel like in my physical body, a lot of

the time it's like in my throat, Wow.

And

it's like, and I have a defined
throat and it's connected to my mind.

So it's similar to Kyle.

There's a lot of rumination that comes
and it's either it cuts my voice off and

I completely shut down, or it's like the
opposite and it's like verbal diarrhea

of like, everyone around me is gonna
know like how pissed off and salty I am.

Um.

Jamie Clark: Yeah.

Brandi Healy: So it's like, it's v it's
very, it shows up very extreme where

it's like I just let the discomfort
like solidify and get really heavy or

it's just like, has to like come out.

Yeah.

And it's just like really

messy

Jamie Clark: Yeah.

Fascinating.

And it's so interesting for you to notice
that and get curious about it, and I'm

curious if that bitterness comes up when
you are not speaking your mind or when

you feel that people don't understand you.

Brandi Healy: I think it's more so when
I don't feel like the in, there's an

implicit invitation for me to be able

to share what it is that I see.

And so a lot of the work that I've had
to do, I think that this is like where

I can look to like manifest our strategy
and find a lot of learning in terms of

like that repellent energy, you know, so
to speak of like Looking at an invitation

as like that is a protective mechanism.

So instead of being pissed off that it's
not there, like looking at that as a like,

whew, I can save my insight and keep them
to myself and not waste them in a space

that's, it's not going to be received

Jamie Clark: I love that it's a, it's
such a protective mechanism, and waiting

for the invitation is not passive either.

Brandi Healy: No, no, and I think that
that's, you know, that's certainly

something that is like a learning of
like in order for people to invite

you in, they have to understand.

how you can, you know, serve
them with your perspective.

And I think going back to Kyle's point,
it's like, it's definitely a muscle

because it's like I, you know, I'm not
operating from that place all the time.

Like I'm still like
yelling at people that I.

You know, and the one that does the
most in this house, which is like a

hundred percent not true but like,
you know, certainly like in, in

shadow moments like that can come
up, but it's like the like, oh shit.

Like reminder to myself of like,
you know, are you actually paying

attention to, like, who wants
to hear what you have to say?

Or are you just like.

Throwing it out there, just
expecting everybody's ready for it.

Just like as a manifester,
are you just expecting people

are ready to be initiated?

Jamie Clark: Yep.

Yep.

It's a lot of discernment.

It's important to have
around who we interact with.

Mm-Hmm.

Kyle, I'm curious if there's
anything there for you.

Kyle Wood: Uh, . I mean, I actually
when I was waiting 'cause I

wanted to ask you about, uh, wanted
you to use your skills on me.

Uh, 'cause I've got

Jamie Clark: Yeah.

Kyle Wood: to Cher

and, and

Jamie Clark: Excellent.

I was hoping for that.

Kyle Wood: Yeah.

So this came up when, um, before
we start the call and so like

I can get on this call chat.

. You know, it's fine.

Everything's fine.

Even in my body now, I'm noticed I'm
getting nervous bringing this up.

So this would be, you can unpack me,

uh,

Jamie Clark: Take a deep

breath.

Kyle Wood: yeah, I think that's,
that can be sometimes part of it.

Um, so on.

Yeah, this call, fine.

You know, if I run workshops, calls
for my business, never an issue.

Can like that sort of public speaking.

I've run like live workshops.

Not really an issue, you know,
like there'll be like nerves and

excitement beforehand, but get
into the groove and it's fine.

But man, when, like, forever at my,
the fire brigade where I volunteer, if

I have to speak, say like last time we
had our meeting and I, and there was

something I wanted to bring up at the
meeting, uh, during general business, so.

that up.

It's like as soon as I start
speaking, my voice starts like

shaking, starts going wobbly.

All this emotion comes up like, like
I wanna start crying and just like,

and it's like I'm just, frustrating 'cause
I'm like, I just wanna just convey what

I'm, when, like get across and instead
I'm like battling with myself to like

hold it together over something that

rationally doesn't feel
terribly emotional.

Um, but there's this emotion and, and
I've noticed, and it's happened for years.

I remember like another time, like I
received an award and, uh, to get up and

say something, and normally that would not
be an issue, but in front of that group of

people, I think it's the group of people.

Um,

voice started shaking,
started getting all emotional

,
Jamie Clark: Yeah.

Kyle Wood: yeah.

Jamie Clark: Totally.

So thank you first of all for sharing.

So vulnerably, this is so
common, and you know, we don't

often see men sharing that piece

where those emotions come up.

And

so thank

you one for speaking into that.

Kyle Wood: Well

Jamie Clark: And so,

Kyle Wood: very safe place for me.

So

Jamie Clark: yeah.

Yeah, of course.

And so, and it's still a big deal, right?

And so what I would say, or my

question is if you can take

a deep breath and just
put your palms open.

And when you think about sharing in front
of people at the firehouse, and I imagine

that they're typically men, is that right?

I.

Kyle Wood: Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah,

man.

Mostly old,

Jamie Clark: And so,

Kyle Wood: mostly older than me.

Jamie Clark: yeah,

mostly older than you,

so potentially people that you imagine

are in authority

positions

that you may want to impress.

Kyle Wood: mm-Hmm.

Jamie Clark: And so really

checking in

of does this energy

feel familiar to childhood?

Kyle Wood: Hmm.

Jamie Clark: To when you were

sharing,

what was it like for the younger

version of you, little Kyle
that's seven or eight years old?

Was he afraid to talk in front of people?

What was that like?

What was his interactions with men?

Kyle Wood: This is gonna sound like
I'm, I'm deflecting the question,

but it's like I feel like I need to

Jamie Clark: No, no, no.

Kyle Wood: I don't know, nothing's
coming up like in the moment.

Uh, and

Jamie Clark: Yeah,

Kyle Wood: it's definitely
something I could reflect on.

Like, I'm not

thinking of a

specific thing, but in

Jamie Clark: yeah.

Kyle Wood: speaking.

'cause I'm like, was there like,
you know, I think you have male

figures like teachers, father.

Grandparent like

Brandi Healy: I am like altar boy.

Altar boy,

Kyle.

Kyle Wood: I was very comfortable in that

environment and would've felt comfortable

Jamie Clark: great.

Kyle Wood: talk, talking there.

But yeah, like maybe there's
something there around like

a teacher or, or like
parental sort of figure.

Jamie Clark: Yeah, totally.

And I didn't expect you to have an answer.

Right.

It's just starting to get curious

around where you learned

that it

wasn't safe to speak up in front

of men that are authority figures

or men that are big that have,

that you wanna

impress,

Kyle Wood: Yeah.

Jamie Clark: you know?

And so, and it's and, and, it, right?

And so it's not necessarily,

oh, I have this one memory
of when I was seven where dad

didn't do blah, blah, blah.

No, no, no.

It's more so this, this feeling

over time that you start to
acquire or thinking about, okay.

In, in high school, what was that like?

Like where was the, the gap in
learning or what happened where

Now I don't feel safe to talk in
front of this group of individuals.

Kyle Wood: Mm.

Yeah.

Yeah.

'cause there's definitely
a, a thing around

pressing and there's a lot of

Jamie Clark: hmm.

Kyle Wood: experience amongst
some of those members.

Um, and yeah, there is a, a worry like

I mean, when I'm accepting an award,
I'm not really worrying about what I'm

saying, but still had the same feeling.

But then last night it
was like a safety thing.

So it's like, you know what, if
other people would disagree with

me, there's a little bit of that.

But yeah, usually

Jamie Clark: Mm-Hmm.

Kyle Wood: in myself, I have enough
confidence and whenever I fill out

one of those tests of like, what?

What's your fear?

You know, five greatest fears.

Public speaking usually isn't on there.

'cause I'm like, if I can . Get
it together, it's fine.

But yeah.

But there's definitely something in
this situation, I think that's why

it catches me off guard so much.

'cause I go to just speak and then
all of a sudden it's just Like,

Jamie Clark: Like, oh, what's coming

up?

What is, and so of course, and so
it's noticing, oh, I, there's a

piece of me that is afraid that
. Someone's gonna question my decision,

Kyle Wood: Hmm.

Jamie Clark: or there's a piece

of me

that's afraid that
they're gonna think I am,

fill in the blank.

Dumb or

stupid or not, whatever it is.

Dismissed.

Kyle Wood: That's a big fear.

Brandi Healy: Mm-Hmm.

Kyle Wood: uh, what are you

talking about?

What do you know?

Yeah.

And I can feel that, yeah.

I can feel that coming
from like my childhood.

I think that's a normal

thing probably lots

of men can,

can associate with.

Jamie Clark: Sure.

Kyle Wood: Yeah.

Jamie Clark: Yeah.

And that's

another big piece of it that so many of

us, I, I operate from the belief that
our parents really did the best they

could with the tools that they had.

Kyle Wood: Yeah.

Jamie Clark: Right.

And so through the

work that we do,

our parents aren't on trial

though.

Some of them, clients really want
them to be, and that's great,

but that's their experience,

you know, and

it's like great, like let's dig into that

because ultimately if you notice that
it's something that's holding you back.

Or getting in the way of you
confidently speaking in those areas.

It's a moment for you to
check into yourself and say,

oh, where did I learn this?

That I

wasn't the expert or that I'm, I'm not

that I'm going to

be dismissed if I say what I'm going to

say.

Kyle Wood: Yeah.

Jamie Clark: Yeah.

Kyle Wood: Yeah.

Jamie Clark: And then the

last thing that I'll share about
that, 'cause I could talk about

it forever.

Kyle Wood: Yeah,

Jamie Clark: Is really

checking in with how your

body feels in those moments, right?

And how granular can you get about
your experience, even if it's for

10 seconds before you speak, right?

So if it's your turn to say something,

just taking

a deep breath and noticing and

practicing what you're learning
in this meditation of, wow, my

heart's beating really fast, or.

I am, my, my palms are sweaty or my
arms are sweaty, or my chest feels hot.

And just breathing into that

over trying to pretend that it's not

there.

Kyle Wood: Yeah,

yeah, yeah.

And I wanna say like that, the idea of
doing that feels scary because there is

Jamie Clark: yeah.

Kyle Wood: a lot of emotion there and

Jamie Clark: Yeah.

Kyle Wood: like acknowledging
that and feeling into that feels.

Scary in the moment because
it's like, what if it, what if

I can't control this emotion?

Uh,

Brandi Healy: For sure.

Kyle Wood: yeah.

Jamie Clark: yep.

Do you feel it in your body right now?

Kyle Wood: Yeah.

Yeah.

A little bit.

Yeah.

Jamie Clark: Yeah.

Okay, so let's take just a couple minutes.

Kyle Wood: Okay.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Jamie Clark: Yeah.

Yeah.

So take a breath, close your eyes.

That feels good.

Just notice what's happening in your body.

Can you describe where the sensation is?

Kyle Wood: Uh, my chest,
like my solar plexus.

Jamie Clark: Yeah, so just bringing all
of your attention to that solar plexus

just trusting whatever comes up, comes up.

So it's in your solar
plexus, in your chest.

Is it tight or open?

Kyle Wood: Uh, there's like, uh,
pressure and then kind of, you

know, like in the nervousness.

So like a,

like almost like a feeling of instability.

Jamie Clark: Yeah, totally.

So it's tight and in instability.

Is it?

Is it kind of moving around?

Kyle Wood: Yeah, yeah,

Jamie Clark: Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So just breathing into that.

Does it have a temperature?

Kyle Wood: Uh

hmm.

Cold, I would say.

Jamie Clark: Cool.

So just

noticing that there's a tightness,

an instability in your chest, that's cool.

Remember, there's nothing to change or fix
about the sensation's, just being with it.

And getting curious about it.

Would you describe it in any other way?

Like its texture or its color?

Kyle Wood: It's hard for me to, it is,
like you said about the color stuff.

It's hard to

Jamie Clark: Yeah.

Kyle Wood: that way when I

Jamie Clark: Great.

Kyle Wood: No

Jamie Clark: Awesome.

Per

Kyle Wood: was green and spiky.

That's just what popped into my head.

So.

Jamie Clark: Amazing.

So let's just go with green and spiky.

Right?

So this is very new.

You're doing great.

So just breathing into this space,
we're not doing anything with it.

We're not trying to fix it or change it.

All you're doing is just
acknowledging that it's there.

And so what we'll do now is take
three deep breaths into it, just

sending all of your attention there.

Again, noticing that this comes up.

Sometimes in your body when it's
time to speak in front of other

people and checking in and just
trusting whatever comes up.

Does this part have anything to tell
you or anything that it wants to say?

And if not, that's okay.

I.

Kyle Wood: It just feels like there's
some unprocessed emotions there.

Like, I need to watch a

sad movie or something , you know,

Jamie Clark: Yeah.

Kyle Wood: have a good cry.

Like I need, I need an emotional
release, which definitely

doesn't feel safe to do in

in the middle of a fire
brigade meeting, but

Jamie Clark: Podcast.

Right,

Kyle Wood: or on

Jamie Clark: right.

But like.

Kyle Wood: And then that,

Jamie Clark: but you see,

Kyle Wood: Yeah.

So 'cause I'm not accepting,
I am then really rejecting it.

Jamie Clark: yeah.

So you did beautifully.

yeah, I'm curious how you feel now.

Kyle Wood: Good.

Like karma, like it's still there,

Jamie Clark: Yeah,

Kyle Wood: but um,

feels less overwhelming.

It's probably the, the,

thing.

Jamie Clark: Yeah.

Kyle Wood: Yeah.

Jamie Clark: Awesome.

Brandi Healy: Does it feel
like less threatening?

Kyle Wood: practice.

Maybe that's the thing.

Less threatening.

Yeah.

Jamie Clark: Yeah.

and I love that note.

Thank you so much for your vulnerability
with that, but giving yourself that

permission outside of the firehouse
to really sit with that part of you,

right?

And just

get to know it

and get curious about it, and

start to communicate with it

Kyle Wood: yep.

Jamie Clark: of, okay, this shows
up and it's neither good nor

bad.

If I like, it's, I mean, and I feel
these emotions every time I used to

get on stage, but I, it was holding
me back and so when I showed up, I

wasn't calm or present or grounded
or people weren't listening to me,

but it's just letting
your body know that it's

safe

to do the things that you

want to do.

Kyle Wood: Hmm.

it's a weird defense
mechanism that's going on.

Another, like I get you
actually said it limitations.

So it's a, like, I think it makes
me think of that, you know, the

big leap, how they talk, like the
upper eliminating beliefs, um, al

Jamie Clark: Yeah.

Kyle Wood: U-L-P-I-N-G

ing

Um,

Jamie Clark: I'll have to look it

up.

Kyle Wood: yeah.

Uh, no, it's a, yeah, it's a great book.

Um, the Big Leap.

It's, yeah, it's all about like how we,
we will tend to sabotage in certain areas

of our lives when other areas going well.

'cause we've got these, we are
hitting, we, we are hitting up against

these limitations of what we think

that area of our life, um, looks like.

Jamie Clark: Yeah.

Yeah.

And that's all limitations are

Kyle Wood: Yeah.

And even

Jamie Clark: it's just . an, it's.

Kyle Wood: Noticing the limitation,
not doing anything about it.

I remember after reading the
book was like really helpful.

Just be like, oh, that's an area
where I might be doing that,

and not trying to fix anything

Brandi Healy: Mm-Hmm.

Kyle Wood: anything, but just

Jamie Clark: Yeah.

Kyle Wood: who knew?

The power of noticing
would be so powerful.

Jamie Clark: Yeah.

Brandi Healy: Yeah.

Truly.

Jamie Clark: Just acknowledging it and
noticing it, letting it be there, and

that, and when we think about public
speaking or using your voice, that's

often, you know, where we want to go.

Often it starts with
sharing your authentic truth

and sharing how you feel about something

or what you

wanna do.

And if

it's just noticing how
unsafe people feel to do that

or how scared people are.

Kyle Wood: Yep,

Brandi Healy: Mm-Hmm.

Kyle Wood: Yep, Yeah, I could see
how that played into it too, because,

you know, accepting an award and
expressing to the brigade, what it

meant to me was . Felt very vulnerable.

And then again,

Brandi Healy: Mm-Hmm.

Kyle Wood: last night speaking up
about something that I think safety

wise we could be doing better.

And again, there was that like
element of this is something

that I think is important and

Jamie Clark: Yeah.

Kyle Wood: worrying that other people.

Yeah, that was really helpful.

Thank you, Jamie.

Jamie Clark: Yeah.

You're welcome.

Kyle Wood: Um,

Jamie Clark: you.

Brandi Healy: cool to watch.

Kyle Wood: So now I want to know,

now you've given everyone a,
a, a demo without meaning to

So what,

Brandi Healy: Yeah, a little, a

Kyle Wood: bit about how you
are, how you're helping people

with this at the moment.

Like what, do you work with people?

One-on-One or in a group, or do you
have, do you have a blog or, I know you

use TikTok a bit, like tell us a bit.

Jamie Clark: So I run a group program.

Uh, where we really dig into this

stuff, we

really feel into

our experience of what it's like
to share ourselves with the world,

whether that be on stages, literal
public speaking, or on social media.

I.

Or in office buildings and,
you know, in, in our careers.

And so I run a program around
that, that's a group program.

We're wrapping up our
first cohort right now.

It's been absolutely incredible.

Uh, I also run retreats.

I'm headed down to California
in just a little bit to run

a transformational retreat.

Uh, the best way to connect
with me is on LinkedIn.

Kyle Wood: Oh.

Jamie Clark: Which most people

say,

wow, that is boring

It's not.

It

is not.

I promise it's not boring.

I it's

Brandi Healy: gotten pretty.

Jamie Clark: as,

Kyle Wood: same.

Our reflector was on LinkedIn

Brandi Healy: Yeah, it's.

It's gotten pretty spicy and like,

especially post pandemic.

It's so,

you know, you're not the
first, you're not the first.

Jamie Clark: Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, and that's, I mean,
that's where my people are.

I was in corporate

Brandi Healy: mm-Hmm.

Jamie Clark: long time and I
really witnessed so many women,

especially not use their voice in
their corporate roles or in their

corporate settings or in
their businesses, and so.

and I work with creatives and

artists and people that are really looking
to spread their message in a bigger way.

And what's holding them back is the fear.

They're like, oh, I don't
wanna show my emotion.

Brandi Healy: Mm-Hmm.

Jamie Clark: So that's
the best place to find me.

I take on, um,

very

very small number of one-on-one clients,

um, has to really be the right fit.

I truly believe that we heal and

we

transform best in a group

setting.

Kyle Wood: Yep.

Jamie Clark: Right.

So think

about how vulnerable you were on here and

how much that opens the
space for other people.

What I've noticed in my group

programs

is, and I've been coaching

for years, uh, with another organization,
is the more vulnerable one person is,

the more vulnerable everybody else is.

And so it opens the space and it
opens the container to really express

what it is that you truly feel,

um, and

be supported in it.

Kyle Wood: Yeah.

Jamie Clark: and move through it.

Kyle Wood: Yeah.

Yeah, I, I definitely prefer like group
containers for that reason, because

it's, some days you're not feeling it,
but then yeah, someone else will say

something or open up and then, you know,
it cracks you open a bit, so, um, yeah.

Jamie Clark: yeah.

Kyle Wood: Awesome.

Jamie Clark: yeah.

And then the other half of what I do

too.

oh, real quick is that's okay.

Is the improv side of it.

Right,

and so that's we, we do

a lot of

improv in my group containers.

Kyle Wood: Yeah.

Jamie Clark: So really, and people

are scared,

but it's so much fun.

And every time I do improv at a
retreat, uh, I, I host and co-lead

transformational healing retreats.

And, you know, you have 30
people in the room and 28 of

them are terrified to improvise.

But then you come out of the.

Experience laughing and loving
it and just being open, and it's,

it's a way for you to express too.

So anyone that's listening, I
would absolutely recommend taking

an improv class in your area if
you're looking to expand, uh,

yourself and your communication.

Kyle Wood: Awesome.

I'll have to see if there's any down

here.

Brandi Healy: so good.

Yeah.

Jamie Clark: Maybe I'll come to Australia

Kyle Wood: Yeah.

Jamie Clark: 2025.

We'll see.

Kyle Wood: Yep.

Ship your, ship your van over.

Jamie Clark: Yeah.

Kyle Wood: Gee, a very trip.

Jamie Clark: Yeah.

Kyle Wood: Thank you Jamie.

Really?

Brandi Healy: good.

Jamie, I.

Kyle Wood: Yeah, just awesome catching
up with you and, um, hearing what

you're up to and really excited for
this work and yeah, and I always get a

lot out of the conversations we have.

Always really appreciate your insights.

Uh, so yeah, thanks

Jamie Clark: I appreciate that.

Kyle Wood: a little mini
session with me then as well.

Jamie Clark: Yeah.

Anytime.

Kyle Brandy, this is so fun.

Thank you.

Brandi Healy: Our pleasure.

Thank you.

Kyle Wood: All right.

Fail.

Well, everyone.